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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  May 23, 2018 4:30am-5:00am BST

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this is bbc news. the headlines: president trump has said there is a substantial chance that a meeting with kimjong—un, planned for next month, would be delayed. last week, north korea threatened to pull out of the proposed summit if the united states continued to insist that it give up its nuclear weapons unilaterally. lava from hawaii's erupting kilauea volcano is edging towards a geothermal power plant — that provides a quarter of the electricity for big island. workers have capped three pressurized wells to reduce the risk of an uncontrolled release of toxic gases should they be inundated by the lava. the facebook founder, mark zuckerberg, has apologised to european parliamentarians for failing to prevent the site's technology from being used for harmful purposes. but he was criticised, as meps sought an explanation for how the personal data of millions of facebook users was misused. now on bbc news, hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. my guest is a
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pioneer in so many ways. she has been described as the arab world's leading feminist. she is a medical doctor,, activist, writer, an outspoken political activist. she is doctor nawal el saadawi. she was banned from speaking on the eve kitchen media and was jailed for her outspoken views. how much freedom of expression is that currently under president sisi and what about the status of women in egypt today? —— egyptian media. doctor nawal el
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saadawi welcome to hardtalk. another president sisi was re—elected in april this year. recently, president sisi was re—elected in aprilthis year. recently, how president sisi was re—elected in april this year. recently, how much christie in egypt today? it is not less or more than democracy in britain or the united states. i look to the world as a whole. so egypt is not specifically lacking democracy. i have been travelling all over the world. i had not seen a democratic country. do you have democracy here in britain? shall wejust stick country. do you have democracy here in britain? shall we just stick with egypt? no. i cannot stick with just a because i live throughout the world. let's take one specific point. you were imprisoned in 19 80 under president anwar sadat because
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of your outspoken views. you said at the time that you believed what he said about democracy with a multipart system and you can criticise. so i began to criticise his policy and i landed injail. today, do you have the freedom to say what you want in egypt? much better than under sadat or mubarak. now i am not censored. i can speak my views in egypt now. also, i write. in the national paper. i write. in the national paper. i write regularly. in that case, it sounds as if you are happy when sisi removed the previous president from power in 2013. that move was criticised by many inside egypt and
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internationally. yes. we were happy. there were millions. in fact, it was not sisi who removed the muslim brotherhood. it was the egyptian people. 30 million people were in the street. against the muslim brotherhood. the army removed him. he was minister of defence and head of the armed forces. the people of egypt's removed the muslim brotherhood. we were 30 million in the streets saying that we will not have an islamic government we will not have an islamic state. and even sisi was reluctant and we were pushing him and the army to take over. so we had to be clear. what is happening in egypt is not really per trade outside. i must put it to you that in the elections, after the
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toppling of mubarak in 2011, elections were held in 2012 and the muslim brotherhood, who had refashioned themselves as the freedom and justice party won 47% in parliament and, also, other islamist parties brought the support of them was based parties to over 70%. this is an allusion. we did not have democratic elections in egypt. because there is no democratic elections in any country. it is money and power. also i was in exile for 20 years. so i witnessed bill clinton campaigning and 0bama. is that democracy? it is money. money and power. so money brought morsi to
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power? yes. they supported the muslim brotherhood with money. the position of america was, immediately after the removal of morsi, that he was democratically elected. let's not go down that path. but sisi eventually became president in 2014 in elections which gave him 97% of the vote. is sisi democratically elected? democracy the vote. is sisi democratically elected ? democracy has the vote. is sisi democratically elected? democracy has nothing to do with elections and elections have nothing to do with democracy. we do nothing to do with democracy. we do not live in a democratic world. no. there is dictatorship everywhere. i must be cleared. dictatorship is capitalism. you cannot have democracy, real democracy, in a
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capitalist, classist, religious system. you can not have democracy. how can you? let me ask you this then. the point i would like to develop is the fact that many people inside egypt and outside of the inside egypt and outside ofthe ,,.-. wu mtg— . inside egypt and outside ofthe ,,.-. 5555555 that inside egypt and outside ofthe ,,.-. 5555255 h that whatever a religious state. so we against a religious state. so we know and many people in egypt do not
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accept a religious state. that is why they support abdel fattah el—sisi. so everything is relative. relative. so abdel fattah el—sisi's rule is much better than that of the muslim brotherhood. number one, they do not choose religion. because to play with religion is like playing with fire. was on brothers want to tell us that allah said so and we cannot criticise allah. at least we cannot criticise allah. at least we can criticise the army or abdel fa tta h can criticise the army or abdel fattah el—sisi. beat you cannot criticise allah. you have been an outspoken person all your life, as we can see. you outspoken person all your life, as we can see. you have outspoken person all your life, as we can see. you have written things like the hidden face of eve were covered issues such as female genital mutilation, sexual relationships, prostitution, marriage, divorce. you have been very outspoken. do you feel that
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sometimes you may serve your cause a little better if you were less outspoken? no. i should be more outspoken. i should outspoken? no. i should be more outspoken. ishould be outspoken? no. i should be more outspoken. i should be more aggressive. the world is becoming more aggressive. and we need people to speak loudly against injustices. and to be fair. there is no fan is. iam angry. and to be fair. there is no fan is. i am angry. i speak loudly because i am angry. what is this bias? why? why? why are people killed, like i told you in palestine, i know the media does not mention that. this is pa rt media does not mention that. this is part of my life. this is part of my life. we have to, if we are going to talk politics, and not literature, we need to look to the whole world. to the whole world. what is happening in the whole world? we live in a capitalist patriarchal
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system. harsh capitalism. patriarchal and religious system. you were born in 1931, just outside cairo as one of eight children and you say that in your writings you a lwa ys you say that in your writings you always thought why you should be treated differently to your brothers. you came from a relatively progressive family and you were highly educated. looking at one specific practice in egypt's, female genital mutilation, that is something you yourself underwent a six years of age. is that the reason why you felt that you had his personal mission to try to eradicate harmful practices like this? no. now. i've got it. iforgot harmful practices like this? no. now. i've got it. i forgot the event when i was a child. but then i was reminded of it when i worked as a medical dr and i saw children cut,
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male and female. circumcision is male and female. circumcision is male genital mutilation. and female genital mutilation. so after graduating and working as a physician and after being children in front of me being carked i started to remember what happened to me and i... it is not personal. but just thinking about the kinds of courses you have taken, the way that you approach issues like that. my point was that do you think you would serve the cause a little better if you would working more quietly behind the scenes? even today in egypt, over 50%, perhaps 70% of girls are still subjected to fgm. and that is why we should be very brave. and open. and also clear. why should we not be clear?
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to hide behind things and be careful? why? i have to be outspoken. why has it proved so durable? it has been outlawed in egypt since 1996. in 2016 the law was strengthened in egypt to bring in harsher penalties for practitioners. the law has not stopped it. why does it persists? it isa stopped it. why does it persists? it is a very deep—rooted habit, related to the patriarchy. it is related to the oppression of women in all religions. in fact, women are circumcised in, under all religions. physically, mentally, spiritually, psychologically. we have to put fgm and mgm, also, in a historical context. it is history. it is about sexuality. is a women's sexuality? yes. a double standard of society
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that women should be monogamous and men are polygamists. you see? so how can women be monogamous? women often perpetuate fgm. it is notjust something the men do. the women wanted, sometimes. they are. slaves are not always against slaves. it is are not always against slaves. it is a slave mentality. when you are repressed you repress your children. especially your daughters. this is psychology. the point is we need to understand that why female genital mutilation or male genital mutilation or male genital mutilation is still, today, it is still durable and it is still now. why are men circumcised? nobody asks. it is related to female circumcision. and it is related to monogamy for women and polygamy ferment. in orderfor women monogamy for women and polygamy ferment. in order for women to monogamy for women and polygamy ferment. in orderfor women to be monogamous, they must be circumcised. to be satisfied with
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one man, or you know? it is related to monogamy. there are other issues. you bring up monogamy and looking at theissue you bring up monogamy and looking at the issue of marriage, i wanted to raise a particular case with you thatis raise a particular case with you that is making a of headlines at moment um the case of a 19—year—old woman in the sudan, next to egypt, where i was born. she has been condemned to death for stabbing her husband to death. she was forced into the marriage when she was in her early mid teens and she did not consent to have sexual intercourse with him and was held down by three of his male relatives. you know the story? so why does the koran first of all... first of all, it does not allow forced marriage so why does this happen? it has nothing to do
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with religion. many people think it is the koran that oppresses women. 0r islam. women are also oppressed injudaism, in islam, christianity and hinduism. women are oppressed in all religions. and why women should marry young? you know, they tried. i was about to marry when i was ten yea rs was about to marry when i was ten years old. but i struggled, hard. i struggled. your parents wanted you to marry at ten? yes. many people my age. how did you come at ten years old, managed to say no? you will need to read my autobiography. . child marriage is universal. in china, in the us, it is universal. like fgm. like polygamy and monogamy. everything. like, everything related to women. it is universal because women should marry young and the men are older, in
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order to dominate her. the husband should dominate. so the women marry young. she can be manipulated,... this one actually resisted. she said she was tricked into marrying him. and she killed him when he tried to force himself on her. good for her. now look at her. what is going to happen to her. amnesty international sebi sudanese court to say she is guilty premeditated murder, even though she was defending herself from being married to a man. she is innocent. this girl is innocent in front of all laws. she is innocent. because she was defending herself. because, you know, her husband tricked. rape is like killing. when a girl is raped while she is young, young, teenager, this is like
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killing her. so the world should recognise that she was being killed by the husband and she was in self defence. she was defending herself. so she is innocent. child marriage is universal. and the oppression of women is universal. and we have to put it in that picture to understand. looking at the statins of women in he chipped today, we have heard a lot about women being sexually molested in public areas and so forth and president sisi has designated 2017, he designated it, the year of the women. and he has said he wants to introduce laws, he has introduced laws which are more favourable to women, he has increased the number of women in the cabinet to 18%, and that kind of thing. is that progress for women's status and rights in he chipped? well, very little. women cannot be,
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ido well, very little. women cannot be, i do not believe the rights of women come from the government, from any government. i believe they gain the right to buy their own effort. i did not believe any of them, any ruler would bring liberation. we women should organise ourselves and be aware of our problems and fight. i don't believe in individual rule, that an individual rule will bring rights to women or two men or to anybody. so the people themselves should fight for their rights. and you yourself, you sebi people themselves should fight for their rights... and women should fight. do you see what is going on in a loss of countries around the world, western countries in particular, america, europe, about the b2 campaign, where women are standing up campaign, where women are standing up and saying this kind of sexual harassment has gone on for too long, what are your views on that, is it
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something that resonates with you in he chipped? yes. fortunately women in america and in the world discovered that because when i was talking to an international women's conference. and they were saying the problem with women is global, global and local, we cannot separate between the global and local. they laughed. but now the american women now are fighting against rape and sexual molesting. and you heard about the very famous men who raped women. i am about the very famous men who raped women. iam happy about the very famous men who raped women. i am happy that it became known universally, because, yeah. do you think it is a universal issue though, people do not have to apply cultural sensitivities and sensitivities and norms, so the debate is different in egypt from what it might be in the united states. exactly. you got the point. it is different? it is universal. and we should not speak about
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cultural relativism. i am not very much with this idea of cultural relativism or multiculturalism. this post—modern language, i don't agree, a very critical of this language, this so—called, so i think what i think, is that the local is not separate from the global. i think this problem, that feminism is a western invention, that me, i am copying western women, you know, they don't believe that feminism is in every country. that's why i call myself historical socialist feminist. that is the point. for example, back in 2001 you said the veillas un— islamic. you said that there are vestiges of pagan practices during the annual hajj muslim pilgrimage. that backfired on
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you because you were accused of apostasy, you are sacked from your job at the ministry of health, and as editor of a health journal, that is the point i am making. should you not proceed with a bit more recognition of cultural sensitivities? well, it is not cultural, because for me this is happening. i was not speaking specifically about islam or about the hajj or about women's oppression by islam. i was linking all the time in my writings, whetherfictional fa ct, in my writings, whetherfictional fact, a lead am a medical doctor. so we need, in order to understand women problems, or any problems, we should be historical and we should link the problem, in history, and follow it up to now. you have just written your memoirs, at the age of 86, nearly 87, called a daughter of isys: walking through fire. when you
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look back on your distinguished career, what do you think about your life's work in trying to promote women's writes, we are satisfied with what has gone on? well, yes. yes. if you ask me this question a few years ago, i would say no. but now i say yes. you cannot imagine, my books, i have 70 books, fiction and non—fiction, they are in most every home in egypt and sedan. they're there. read by young people, 15 years, 14 years. so i am very satisfied. whenever i go, to sudan or anywhere, the young people come and tell me, "you have changed my life by your work." that is enough for me. even when they were banned
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as they were smuggled to saudi arabia. you know my books were in saudi arabia while they were banned in egypt. you cannot banned books. people can find them. so your question, yes, iam people can find them. so your question, yes, i am satisfied. people can find them. so your question, yes, iam satisfied. i feel now i am protected by the young people in egypt, everywhere. i filled my promise to myself. but also not enough, i should fight more and more until i die. also not enough, i should fight more and more untili die. but as we said, the status of women in egypt, in the arab world, there is still so much that needs to be achieved, accomplished. of course. but there is also much progress. you cannot see women, young women now, in universities everywhere. they talk loud. you meet egyptian women, very outspoken. they are not walking through fire, as you were? no, much less fire. much less fire. of
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course, they are paying much less price than me. because we had to pay a very high price. you were imprisoned for some months. you are only released when sadat was assassinated and xl. i am satisfied. iam assassinated and xl. i am satisfied. i am optimistic. i am full of hope, because hope is power. i think tomorrow will be better. i think egypt now is much better than under the baric or sadat. so are going on. dr nawal el saadawi, thank you very much indeed for coming on hardtalk. thank you, thank you. the weather is looking fine across most of the uk.
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on wednesday, it will feel warm as well. clear blue skies are on the way. not necessarily from the word go. in fact, in the morning, in eastern and northern counties, it will be cloudy. this is the big picture in our part of the world. this is the jetstream. these weather systems have been diverted to the north. the jetstream is far north, we are well away from it, meaning we will have settled weather. it will warm up in europe in the next few days. i will talk about the warmth heading to us towards the end of the week and the weekend in a moment. this is the short—term. 10 in the south and 11 in the north. those are the morning temperatures. this is the cloud in the morning. it will come back to the coastline through the morning. some of these coastal districts could stay cloudy and cool. look at the yellows compared to the deep oranges. quite a temperature contrast in the uk in the afternoon on wednesday. possibly a 10 degrees difference. 23 in london and 13 in newcastle. for most of us, a fine and beautiful day. a slight change, well,
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quite a big change, on thursday. quite a temperature contrast in the uk in the afternoon on wednesday. possibly a 10 degrees difference. 23 in london and 13 in newcastle. for most of us, a fine and beautiful day. a slight change, well, quite a big change, on thursday. this front will upset weather in southern areas from the word go. not everyone will get rain, but it could be heavy for a time. could be some thunder as well. this could stick around in some areas for much of thursday. a big contrast on the way across the uk on thursday from the cloudy and rainy south to the sunny weather in yorkshire, northern ireland, and scotland. and then the weather front on thursday evening and friday will move further north. many of us towards the end of the week will at least catch a little bit of rainfall. this is the rain as we go through the course of thursday morning into the afternoon. moves across the midlands into wales through yorkshire. a bit of rain is on the way. on friday it will improve. beyond that, it looks like we will see a plume of warmth coming from the south. a heatwave. it will hot up in france and then hit the uk. temperatures will rise.
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saturday and sunday, highs of 28 in some areas. more modest elsewhere. warming up significantly. this is the briefing. i'm maryam moshiri. our top story: a substantial chance of delay. president trump casts doubt over the north korean summit. manchester remembers, one year after the bombing that killed 22 people at an ariana grande concert. final arguments in ireland, ahead of the country's sixth referendum on legalising abortion. another apology but very few answers. european lawmakers question facebook boss mark zuckerberg. and we'll find out whetherjaguar land—rover will turn out to be the saviour of india's tata motors.
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